DUST Search - Confusion from recent dev bi-weekly post

Quil Evrything wrote:

Tebu Gan wrote:

But on the issue of milita tanks, there just isn't a strong enough divide between a SP invested tanker, and a non SP invested tanker.

What is the point to skill points, when a milita is nearly as effective as my gunnlogi!!

And I can answer that question with important specifics.

A militia tank, can fit certian militia modules. however, the CCP balance dudes, did their sneaky number tweaking, so that unless you invest SP points, you can ALMOST.. but not QUITE.. do things like add both a heavy shield, AND 120mm armor, to a militia tank.
(plus a repper and other things, I mean)

Invest the SP points, and you can fit them. Just barely.

The point to gunlogis, are the extra slot(s). You invest the SP (and extra ISK) to get a little more power, and extra slots,
JUST LIKE YOU DO FOR PROTO SUITS.

Just like for higher suits, you pay x4 the ISK (and gobs of SP investment) for something that simply has an extra slot or two.

It actually makes sense, from the standard DUST perspective, as-is. It's just unfortunate there's so much QQ about it becuase ( I would guess) not enough people have figured this out yet.

Maybe, like the suits, there needs to be true 'militia' versions of soma and sica (with further reduced slot count), and then the current sica/soma become the "standard" models. hopefully with a much lower cost to entry for HAVs.

I would be really annoyed if the current level of sica and soma just went away. i think they're similar to the ADV level of dropsuits, really.


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Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 376	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:26:00 - [1] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1681633#post1681633 "Tanks still feel too strong in 1.7 and AV is not strong enough to stop them. WeGÇÖll need to do something about MLT tanks." Err... now I'm concerned. What does "something" mean? Some people have taken this to mean "make militia tanks weaker". But that would be insane. If "(non-militia tanks) are too strong in 1.7", and also "AV is not strong enough to stop them", that to me says two things: 1. the only counter to a tank, is another tank 2. militia tanks need to stay the same, or get STRONGER (at least on the anti-tank level), to be able to successfully counter non-militia tanks. So, can we get a clearer statement of direction from the devs, please? (As for me, I think tanks are actually pretty good as-is. I've found some militia fittings that, with some amount of SP investment, can be an excellent counter to higher level tanks. But pure militia fittings are weak comparatively speaking to other tanks) Tanks still feel too strong on 1.7. Does that mean before 1.7 tanks were stronger!!! Now that is out of the way. I think they do mean all tanks will have changes done to them. Or AV will be getting buffed back up. But on the issue of milita tanks, there just isn't a strong enough divide between a SP invested tanker, and a non SP invested tanker. What is the point to skill points, when a milita is nearly as effective as my gunnlogi!! Nuff Said
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 377	Posted - 2014.01.07 22:54:00 - [2] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: But on the issue of milita tanks, there just isn't a strong enough divide between a SP invested tanker, and a non SP invested tanker. What is the point to skill points, when a milita is nearly as effective as my gunnlogi!! And I can answer that question with important specifics. A militia tank, can fit certian militia modules. however, the CCP balance dudes, did their sneaky number tweaking, so that unless you invest SP points, you can ALMOST.. but not QUITE.. do things like add both a heavy shield, AND 120mm armor, to a militia tank. (plus a repper and other things, I mean) Invest the SP points, and you can fit them. Just barely. The point to gunlogis, are the extra slot(s). You invest the SP (and extra ISK) to get a little more power, and extra slots, JUST LIKE YOU DO FOR PROTO SUITS. Just like for higher suits, you pay x4 the ISK (and gobs of SP investment) for something that simply has an extra slot or two. It actually makes sense, from the standard DUST perspective, as-is. It's just unfortunate there's so much QQ about it becuase ( I would guess) not enough people have figured this out yet. Maybe, like the suits, there needs to be true 'militia' versions of soma and sica (with further reduced slot count), and then the current sica/soma become the "standard" models. hopefully with a much lower cost to entry for HAVs. I would be really annoyed if the current level of sica and soma just went away. i think they're similar to the ADV level of dropsuits, really. Question: Why would everyone complain of milita tank spam? Militia tanks are incredibly cheap and arguably more powerful than a dropsuit being that they are immune to most all small arms fire. Not to mention, AV grenades and swarm launchers being mostly pointless. I think a lot of grief though comes from the redline milita tanks. It's easy to run 2 damage mods and a rail. No need to worry about mitigation, the redline protects them. I wanna focus on the relation between infantry SP investment and tank SP investment. I know infantry has a lot of pointless sinks, that simply unlock either a std, adv, or pro mod. But have you seen the tankers tree!! Let's start with infantry: Skills Specialized suits skill (every specialized suit offers an additional bonus for each level, in addition to STD,ADV, n PRO) Dropsuit Core Upgrades (provides a small bonus per level to CPU/PG, also unlocks additional skills) Dropsuit Electronics (Extra CPU per level) Dropsuit Engineering (Extra PG per level) Dropsuit Shield Upgrades (Extra armor per level) Dropsuit Armor Upgrades (Extra Shields per level) Armor Repair System (2% extra healing per level, plus unlocks mods) Armor Plating (2% from plates per level, also unlocks mods) Shield Extension (2% from extenders, unlocks mods) Shield Recharging (3% extra per level, unlocks mods) Shield Regulation (2% per level, unlocks mods) Weapon skills (all provide a bonus to the weapon per level on top of unlocking STD, ADV, PRO So maxing these skills out will give you the advantage over infantry not invested. So your milita suit, will be better than the uninvested milita suit. The skills give you an advantage, regardless of what suit you run, milita, STD, ADV, PRO. That's what separates your pro suit from someone running an AUR pro suit. Looking at the tank tree you will find that the tree pretty much copies infantry. Except most every skill that is similar provides nothing but the standard level one for STD lvl 3 for ADV and lvl 5 for PRO. I'm only going to list the skills that actually provide something other than a mod unlock. (These 2 actually don't unlock any mods) Vehicle shield Regeneration (5% per level to recharge delay) Vehicle Armor Repair Systems (5% per level to repair rate) Engine Core Calibration (5% per level to duration of modules) Core Grid Management (5% per level to recharge time of modules) Large Turret Operation (2% per level, reduces pg/cpu usage of turrets) There are turret related bonuses as well. Most notable are the Proficiency skills (Increases turret rotation speed 10% per level) Reload skills (2% per level to reload speed) And then there are a LOT of skills that reduce PG/CPU useage of the modules you unlock. Of which I have a few, but I certainly didn't max them out. Additionally, these skills are standalones, most every type of mod has an optimization skill now. But the only reason I could see needing them maxed, is so you can run rider turrets. Now, looking at these skills, what is the difference between a milita tank and a SP invested tank? Aside from mods, what sets an SP invested tanker apart from a Milita tanker? If I were to run a milita tank, what skills set me apart from the milita tanker. I'll come back to this. Got to go!! Nuff Said